Relentless Health Value

Stacey Richter is joined by Mark Cuban, CEO and founder of Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drugs, and Cora Opsahl, Health Fund Director of the 32BJ Health Fund, to discuss pressing issues in American healthcare.  The conversation centers on the inefficiencies and complexities created by high deductible health plans and the layers of vendors self-insured employers hire to manage healthcare claims. Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl advocate for direct contracting and increased transparency as solutions to reduce costs and improve outcomes.  They also explore the potential of simplifying the system back to a more straightforward model where healthcare prices are transparent, and patients and providers can establish trust. This episode emphasizes the importance of leadership and a proactive approach in managing healthcare costs. If you are listening to this prior to October 9, 2025, go to the 32BJ Changing the Playbook on Hospital Prices event, where Mark Cuban will be keynoting. Cora Opsahl will also be speaking, and I will be th

In episode 487, part two, host Stacey Richter interviews Kevin Lyons, a former police detective and current Executive Director of the New Jersey State Police Benevolence Association about the application of detective skills to analyze healthcare spending.  Following a discussion on the barriers driving up healthcare costs in part one, Lyons delves into techniques such as statement analysis and facial recognition to identify deceit and uncover where healthcare dollars are going. Lyons emphasizes the need for preparation, persistent questioning, and the importance of following the money, thereby encouraging a fearless approach to advocating for transparency and better healthcare management. === LINKS ===

In Episode 487 of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter speaks with Kevin Lyons, a former police detective and current executive director at the New Jersey State Police Benevolence Association. They explore, in this two part episode, the significant challenges public sector employees face in obtaining cost-effective health benefits.  The discussion highlights key issues, including the influence of industry profit motives, governmental hiring practices, and media sponsorship biases. Lyons shares insights on the rapidly escalating costs of healthcare for state workers, with specific examples from New Jersey, emphasizing the need for innovative solutions and improved legislative action. The conversation sets the stage for a subsequent episode where Lyons will delve deeper into applying detective skills to uncover financial trails and propose effective changes. Tune in next week for  part 2 when Kevin talks about how he pulls out his notebook and uses what he learned as a detective to, first of all, figure

In this episode of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter sits down with Dr. Stan Schwartz, co-founder of ZERO.health, to explore the practical realities and benefits of direct contracting in healthcare.  Dr. Schwartz shares his journey from traditional healthcare to pioneering bundled payments and direct contracts, offering actionable insights for employers, providers, and anyone interested in making healthcare more affordable and predictable. The conversation covers the challenges of claims, cost variability, operationalizing direct contracts, and the impact on both patients and providers. Discover how employers and providers can use bundled payments to cut costs, simplify administration, and deliver $0 out-of-pocket care for patients. It was an honor to get Dr. Schwartz on the pod, and we are doubly thankful because he stepped up and offered to help support Relentless Health Value financially as well as spending his time with me and you. So, thanks to everyone over at ZERO.health for being part of th

In episode 485, Stacey Richter interviews Dr. Cristin Dickerson on the topic of direct contracting for imaging services. They discuss the high costs of imaging, which can account for 6-11% of a plan sponsor’s healthcare spend. The episode covers the potential for significant cost savings and improved patient access through direct contracting, bypassing traditional TPAs that may have conflicts of interest or contractual constraints.  Dr. Dickerson, who is the founding partner of Green Imaging, explains how her organization has successfully implemented direct contracting, providing affordable and high-quality imaging services nationwide. They also address common barriers such as complexity in coding and payment processes, the reluctance of TPAs, and the habitual referral to 'down the hall' services. The conversation highlights the importance of price transparency, patient education, and how Green Imaging supports plan sponsors in navigating these challenges. === LINKS ===

Exploring TPA and Health Plan Inertia with Elizabeth Mitchell: What Plan Sponsors Need to Know. In this Take 2 of episode 436 of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter speaks with Elizabeth Mitchell, President and CEO of the Purchaser Business Group on Health, about the challenges third-party administrators (TPAs) face, the issues around hidden fees, and the problems with health plan inertia.  They discuss how self-insured employers can find reliable TPA partners, the impact of anti-competitive contracts, and the importance of transparency in healthcare procurement. Mitchell emphasizes the need for direct contracting between employers and providers to reduce costs and improve quality.  The episode covers the implications of the Consolidated Appropriations Act, the role of brokers, and how employers can achieve better value for their healthcare spend. === LINKS ===

In Episode 484 of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter talks with Dave Chase from Health Rosetta about the three most pressing questions faced by self-insured employers today.  The discussion covers how to verify if a benefits advisor truly protects employer interests, avoiding personal liability when third-party administrator contracts have hidden conflicts, and identifying if employers are being systematically overcharged on pharmacy costs despite PBM guarantees.  The episode emphasizes the importance of accessing comprehensive data to identify conflicts and transparency in reporting, and it highlights open source resources available to create high-performance health plans. The conversation also mentions noteworthy related episodes and cases to provide further context and insights. === LINKS ===

In the second part of this conversation with Jonathan Baran, CEO of Self Fund Health, the focus is on reversing the negative cycle of skyrocketing healthcare costs by shifting from buying discounts to investing in primary care and better benefit designs.  The discussion highlights the current issues with the healthcare flywheel, driven by employers buying discounts, and offers solutions such as investing in direct primary care, incentivizing proper healthcare utilization, and improving patient navigation.  The conversation also explores the potential for direct contracting between employers and health systems, aiming for a paradigm shift where employers, brokers, and health plans work collaboratively to improve member health and reduce costs. === LINKS ===

In this episode Stacey Richter speaks with Jonathan Baran, CEO of Self Fund Health in a detailed exploration of what they term the 'Flywheel Downward Spiral' of American healthcare costs. The conversation delves into how electronic health records (EHR) and the incentives driving insurers, brokers, and hospital systems contribute to consistently rising healthcare premiums.  Key points include how insurers profit from high premiums, the misleading marketing focus on discounts rather than actual costs, and the role of EHR systems in maximizing hospital profits rather than improving patient care. The episode sets the stage for a subsequent discussion on reversing these trends, aiming to align healthcare outcomes with cost reductions. Self Fund Health, I am so pleased to tell you, as I am always so pleased to tell you, did make such a kind offer to help out Relentless Health Value financially. You and the tribe here are really, really great folks who I truly appreciate. Please support Self Fund Health if you are i

In this bonus clip from Episode 483 of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter discusses the efforts of individuals working within large healthcare organizations to improve patient outcomes despite systemic challenges.  Guest Jonathan Baran, co-founder and CEO of Self Fund Health, highlights how incentives within the healthcare system drive behaviors that often conflict with patient and member interests.  The discussion emphasizes the importance of not generalizing the intentions of all employees based on organizational actions and encourages a deeper understanding of underlying incentive structures to foster meaningful changes.  Self Fund Health, I am so pleased to tell you, as I am always so pleased to tell you, did make such a kind offer to help out Relentless Health Value financially. You and the tribe here are really, really great folks who I truly appreciate. Please support Self Fund Health if you are in Wisconsin. This episode is sponsored by Self Fund Health. === LINKS ===

In this episode, Stacey Richter talks with Dr. Stan Schwartz, co-founder of ZERO.health about the tension between mission-driven healthcare and financial incentives within the healthcare system. Highlighting examples like the Comprehensive Primary Care Initiative and other advanced primary care efforts, Schwartz shares insights on how health system economics, particularly the reliance on emergency room admissions, often undermine initiatives aimed at reducing costs and improving patient outcomes.  The discussion delves into the role of employer-sponsored health plans as potential change agents in the healthcare system, given their significant influence over commercially insured patients, who are highly attractive to providers. Dr. Schwartz underscores the importance of aligned financial incentives and collective action among employers to drive meaningful change in healthcare. If you would like to get a copy of the mentinoed personal integrity and “are you in healthcare for the right reasons” policy called the

In this episode, Stacey Richter discusses 'Three Surprising Ways Carriers Make Lots of Money' with Preston Alexander. The episode highlights how carriers leverage financial strategies—like using premium dollars as float, intracompany eliminations, and upcoding in Medicare Advantage—to enhance their profits.  The discussion emphasizes the importance for plan sponsors and policymakers to understand these tactics to better manage healthcare costs. Alexander advises collaborating with unbiased consultants who are experts in health plan design to navigate these complex financial dynamics effectively. === LINKS ===

In this second take on episode host Stacey Richter speaks with Dr. Tom Lee, founder of One Medical and Galileo. The discussion centers on the survival of independent primary care practices in the current healthcare economy, the associated challenges, and the paradox of primary care.  Topics include reducing ER visits, managing downstream specialty spend, and the imbalance between CMS and commercial carrier payments to primary care practices.  Dr. Lee highlights the importance of 'enlightened leadership' and a 'value-focused mindset' in balancing efficient service operations with quality care. He also touches on the complexities of integrating technology and human-centered care, the importance of operational efficiency, and the challenges posed by current reimbursement models. For a bonus sidebar conversation with Dr. Lee, click here. === LINKS ===

This short bonus episode is a side bar conversation with Dr. Tom Lee discussing why retail clinics are struggling with Dr. Tom Lee.  They explore the shortcomings of retail clinics in providing longitudinal primary care, despite their convenience for minor urgent care and vaccinations.  Dr. Lee emphasizes that true primary care requires consistent, long-term patient relationships and complex management which many retail clinics fail to deliver. They also discuss the economic challenges of running such clinics and the importance of defining primary care's value proposition correctly. === LINKS ===

Balancing Mission and Margin in Healthcare: A Candid Conversation with Dr. Ben Schwartz In this episode, host Stacey Richter engages in a deep dive with Dr. Ben Schwartz to explore the phrase 'No Margin, No Mission' and its practical implications in the healthcare industry.  They discuss the complex relationship between profitability and mission-driven care, the challenges of value-based care, and the role of dyad leadership. The episode emphasizes the importance of transparency, regulatory measures, and trust in fostering a balance between mission and margin. Along the way, Dr. Schwartz shares insights from his new role at Commons Clinic and addresses broader systemic issues like regulatory capture and the subjective nature of defining value in healthcare. === LINKS ===

In this Take Two episode of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter reflects on her conversation with Dr. John Lee to explore the challenging intersection between mission and margin in healthcare.  They discuss the nuances of cognitive dissonance faced by healthcare professionals, particularly when organizational priorities conflict with patient care. Dr. Lee shares insights on finding a sense of mission within the constraints of the current healthcare system, emphasizing the importance of incremental improvements, team-based care, and peer support.  The conversation also highlights real-world examples of systemic issues and practical advice on how individuals can contribute to meaningful change without feeling demoralized. This episode is part of an ongoing series addressing critical topics in healthcare, and listeners are encouraged to tune in next week for further discussions. === LINKS ===

Enhancing Payment Integrity in Health Systems: An In-depth Discussion with Kimberly Carleson. In Episode 481 of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter speaks with Kimberly Carleson, CEO of US Beacon, about payment integrity within health systems. They delve into strategies some hospitals use to maximize revenue without raising rates and discuss the importance of accurate billing.  Key takeaways include the high prevalence of billing errors, which can lead to significant overcharges for plan sponsors, often due to documentation gaps and complex coding systems. Kimberly provides actionable advice for both healthcare providers and plan sponsors on how to mitigate billing inaccuracies and enhance transparency.  Emphasized points include the necessity of third-party claim audits, understanding legal rights under various acts, and the importance of maintaining clear communication and compliance with legal billing standards. === LINKS ===

Exploring the Complexities of Pharma Rebates with Ann Lewandowski In this Summer Short episode of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter converses again with Ann Lewandowski about the intricate dynamics of pharmaceutical rebates, or as Lewandowski prefers, post-sale concessions.  The discussion delves into the nuances of these rebates, the impact they have on drug costs, and the hidden consequences for patients and plan sponsors.  They highlight articles and insights by Austin Chelko and Peter Hayes, touching on how rebates can disadvantage the pursuit of lower-cost generics and biosimilars, and can obstruct pharmacogenetic testing that ensures drug efficacy and safety.  The conversation also critiques the opacity of rebates, deemed trade secrets by pharma and PBM companies, and underscores the ethical and financial dilemmas posed by the current rebate-driven system. === LINKS ===

In this second discussion with Andreas Mang and Jon Camire of Blackstone, Stacey Richter has  an advanced discussion on the intricacies of stop-loss reinsurance for high-cost claimants.  This show today, for sure, it’s for plan sponsors and anyone on or about plan sponsors; but also listen if you are serving high-cost claimants some other way. Because what you’ll learn here today is some insights relative to how plan sponsors go about making sure that they can pay you—like if you work for, for example, some clinical organization. There’s a, I don’t know, 101 starting point of this conversation if you need it on stop-loss, which is episode 478 from a couple of weeks ago. This show is the, let’s say, 201-level conversation that I’m having with Andreas Mang and Jon Camire about, as I said, stop-loss insurance and stop-loss insurance considerations. Emphasizing the importance of eligibility audits and aggregating buying power, the guests highlight best practices to avoid overpaying for coverage and ensuring compr

Stacey Richter has a second take on the original episode 433 since it is so relevant right now. Stacey engages in a compelling conversation with Justin Leader, CEO of BenefitsDNA, about the opaque practices of third-party administrators (TPAs) and their impact on healthcare costs.  They discuss the hidden fees tucked into weekly claims wires, including shared savings fees, prior authorization fees, prepayment integrity fees, pay and chase fees, and TPA adjudication fees.  The episode emphasizes the need for transparency, understanding hidden costs, and ensuring fiduciary responsibility for self-funded employers. Additionally, Leader shares insights from a Health Affairs article and mentions ongoing legal cases that highlight the financial discrepancies in TPA practices. === LINKS ===