Out Of Order

Out of Order is excited to present part two of our first collaborative episode series, Reporting Across the Pond, produced in coordination with the Europe Desk, a podcast from the BMW Center for German and European Studies at Georgetown University. Out of Order host Peter Sparding connects with Juliane Schäuble, the U.S. Correspondent for “Der Tagesspiegel”, to discuss her experience covering the White House, the U.S. primary election cycle and the current COVID-19 pandemic. Schäuble talks about translating U.S. politics for a German audience, working a primary press briefing, and reporting during the pandemic. If you haven't already, make sure to tune into Reporting Across the Pond Pt. 1, featuring a conversation between the Europe Desk's Alistair Somerville and Brent Goff of Deutsche Welle News.  

Out of Order is excited to present our first collaborative episode series, Reporting Across the Pond, produced in coordination with the Europe Desk, a podcast from the BMW Center for German and European Studies at Georgetown University. In this two-part series, we will be talking both to a European journalist reporting on the U.S. and a U.S. reporter dispatching from Europe. This first episode, produced by The Europe Desk, features Brent Goff, host of The Day with Brent Goff on Deutsche Welle News, who joined host Alistair Somerville from Berlin to discuss his career reporting on European and international issues. He discussed the role of social media, the challenges of reporting in a fair and balanced way, and Deutsche Welle's unique vantage point reporting in 30 languages from Berlin and around the world. Stay tuned for Pt. 2 where we speak to a European journalist about covering the U.S. election cycle and the rapid spread of COVID-19 in the U.S.

Join GMF hosts Rachel Tausendfreund and Sydney Simon for a discussion on the crisis in Idlib. From Washington, Sydney speaks with GMF senior fellow Jonathan Katz on the confluence of Syrian, Russian and Turkish interests in the area, the stance of the United States and the humanitarian stakes at hand. We then head to our Berlin office where Rachel dives into the big picture implications of the crisis and its effect on EU-Turkey relations with GMF experts Jessica Bither, Migration Fellow & Senior Program Officer, and Ozgur Unluhisarcikli, the Director of GMF's Ankara Office.

President Macron’s observations about NATO’s “brain death” jolted Europe, eliciting a spectrum of reactions across the continent-- from ambivalence to annoyance to hysteria. Four months after, now that the dust has settled, what did Macron’s NATO comments reveal about Europe’s own cohesion on defense and where do things stand between France and its neighbors? Picking up on one of Out of Order’s ongoing conversations, this week’s episode brings perspectives from Germany, France, and Poland around the table for a debate on what the NATO dust-up says about Europe’s diverging strategic cultures, and how the strategy may (or may not) change for the alliance itself. In this week’s episode, GMF Paris deputy director Martin Quencez, GMF’s Europe program director Jan Techau, and Michal Baranowski, GMF’s Warsaw director join host Rachel Tausendfreund this week from Berlin.

When the Berlin Wall fell and the USSR crumbled, an era of excessive optimism set in. It was a period where it seemed like liberal democracies would lead a straight march to global peace. Three decades later, Thomas Kleine-Brockhoff says that, somewhere down the line, we took a hard turn toward excessive pessimism – or Immerschlimmerismus—the German word describing a feeling that things keep getting worse and worse. As the values that once bound western democracies fall by the wayside, is the concept of “the West” as we know it dead in the water? Kleine-Brockhoff, head of GMF’s Berlin office is the author of the recent book “The World Needs the West“ (Die Welt braucht den Westen, in its original German)  joins Out of Order to discuss why a system that once felt rock solid now seems to be, well, out of order—and whether a course correction is possible.  At the beginning of this episode, we spoke to Alistair Somerville, a host at The Europe Desk, a podcast from the BMW Center for German and European Studies at

More people today have been forcibly displaced from their homes than at any time since World War ll. According to the UN, a record 70 million people around the world are living as refugees or are displaced in their own countries worldwide. The Mediterranean region has been at the center of intense debates over migration since 2015, when an unprecedented number of refugees and migrants – many fleeing the war in Syria and conflicts elsewhere in the Middle East and Africa – arrived on Europe’s shores. Five years later, the debate continues as different countries and communities take different approaches to grappling with the issue. In the season 3 finale, Out of Order travels to Marseilles, France to explore migration in the Mediterranean with key players in the region and, specifically, how the cities on the frontlines are managing and adapting to new realities. Show note: The interviews for this podcast were taped at the 19th meeting of the German Marshall Fund’s Mediterranean Strategy Group, which met in Mars

Germany’s center-left Social Democrats (SPD) recently elected two new leaders, Norbert Walter-Borjans and Saskia Esken. Both are strongly critical of the already-shaky “grand coalition” with Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservative CDU and this surprising election result has thrown the future of German politics into question—again. At the same time, the Greens and the far-right AfD are growing in popularity and vying for power. Is the German political system going through a “slow-burning revolution?" This week on Out of Order, two of GMF’s resident explainers of German politics, Jan Techau and Sudha David-Wilp, dissect the latest drama out of Europe’s largest economy-- why it’s just starting to get interesting at home and how it will affect Germany’s role in Europe and the world.

In the information wars, controlling the narrative is key. From Hong Kong to 5G to US politics, the Russian government has made no illusions about its willingness to bend reality to get what it wants. What is that narrative and is it really making an impact?  And why does a professional disinformation tracker think that the overt information – news spread to the world from state-run outlets like Sputnik and RT—can tell us far more than the covert bots and trolls that became so infamous in 2016?   This week on Out of Order, Bret Schafer, a disinformation expert with GMF’s Alliance for Securing Democracy discusses his new project tracking Russian global narratives and where the Kremlin is succeeding, how the disinformation landscape is changing, and what it matters.

Extraordinary things happened in 1989. The Berlin Wall fell. Europe finally came close to being “whole and free.” But that was not where history ended. The subsequent rise of an “anti-liberal counterrevolution” showed that the liberal internationalists’ agenda was far from bullet-proof.  The tipping point, according to historian Timothy Garton Ash, was Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution—when Putin woke up and found the West at his door. Renowned historian Garton Ash joins “Out of Order” for a reflection on the legacy of Europe’s not-so-distant history: what the West got so wrong, China’s 1989 connection, and whether a liberal agenda is viable in today’s politics.   This episode was taped as GMF’s Brussels Forum. A transcribed version of the discussion is also published online as part of GMF’s 1989 publication. A second episode on 1989’s technological legacy will be released next month.

Since President Trump announced the withdrawal of US troops from Syria, realities on the ground have moved at breakneck speed. To make sense of it all,  Out of Order caught up with GMF experts in Ankara and Washington. First, senior fellow Jonathan Katz joins discusses the situation as it has unfolded—and its vast consequences-- and how it’s playing out politically and geopolitically. Later in the episode, GMF’s Ankara office director Ozgur Unluhisarcikli joins Out of Order to discuss Turkey’s relationship with the US and Europe, and how it has set the stage for the situation we see today. **Show Note: This episode was taped on Thursday, October 17 and does not account for news developments that have taken place since.**

As frustration with inaction on climate change at the national and global level boils over, cities of all sizes and geographies just might hold the solutions we need to take action on global warming. In this episode of Out of Order, two mayors from opposite sides of the Atlantic—Cambridge, MA and Heidelberg, Germany-- are at the table to discuss the role of cities in confronting climate change and how their respective communities are innovating in the face of national gridlock. Mayor Marc McGovern and Mayor Eckart Würzner are both part of the GMF Cities project, Energy Allies, a four-city dialogue that fosters strategic partnerships and collaboration between local civil society and government leaders.    

We're interrupting the Out of Order stream this week to share a new episode of the "Democracy Works" podcast -- a project of Penn State's McCourtney Institute for Democracy and WPSU. In this episode, renowned democracy expert Larry Diamond talks with Democracy Works' Jenna Spinelle about China’s model of authoritarian capitalism and the effect it's having around the globe on democracies and other authoritarian actors.   Find other Democracy Works episodes at www.democracyworkspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

John Bolton, President Trump’s 3rd National Security Adviser, has made his exit. With change afoot (or maybe not) two of the most well-positioned voices on all things NSC—John Gans and Derek Chollet-- are at the Out of Order table to discuss what went wrong for Bolton, how the national security process has been broken under the Trump administration, and what could come next for a yet-to-be-named successor. John Gans is the author of White House Warriors, a new book on the National Security Council, current director of communications at the University of Pennsylvania's Perry World House global policy center, and a GMF Fellow. Among other roles, he served as Chief Speechwriter for Defense Secretary Ash Carter. Derek Chollet is the German Marshall Fund’s Executive Vice President. His previous roles include Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs and Senior Director for Strategic Planning on the National Security Council staff under President Obama. Bios: Derek Chollet - http://www.gmfus

U.S. society is as divided as it has been in modern history. Americans cannot agree on the past, and politicians refuse to face the future. Political animus has replaced compromise and bipartisanship is the norm in Washington, as a divisive President seeks a second term. With election season ramping up and political divisions on display, two veterans of U.S. politics-- Margaret Carlson, Columnist at The Daily Beast, and Mitch Landrieu, the former Mayor of New Orleans and founder of E Pluribus Unum--  joined Out of Order for an insightful conversation on the state of U.S. political discourse, how society became so fractured and where some solutions might be found. Above all: Is there a way out of this mess?   Related Reading: Margaret Carlson's article, referenced in the episode: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/why-dont-people-tip-hotel-maids/590410/   Recent Op-ed from Mitch Landrieu: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/12/opinions/us-critical-conversation-gun-violence-and-white-supremacy-landrieu/

After a diplomatic breakthrough in the turbulent Balkans, the Republic of North Macedonia has a new name and its sights set on integration with the European Union and NATO. What is the path ahead for the potential future NATO member state, how do the complicated politics of the region affect its prospects, and what is America’s role in all of this? At the German Marshall Fund's Brussels Forum held earlier this summer, GMF’s senior fellow Jonathan Katz sat down with two preeminent voices in the region-- Radmila Šekerinska, North Macedonia’s Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defense; along with Gordana Delic, the director of GMF’s Belgrade-based Balkan Trust for Democracy—to discuss these topics and more.

Has the Transatlantic Relationship Been Irreparably Damaged? At the most recent Brussels Forum, GMF partnered with Intelligence Squared U.S., for a lively debate on the future of the U.S. and Europe’s special relationship amidst polarized politics and tensions over security and trade on both sides of the Atlantic. Through this special Out of Order episode, we are excited to feature our live broadcast recording of the debate. Among the debaters: John Mearsheimer − American Political Scientist & Professor, University of Chicago, Constanze Stelzenmüller − Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution, Carla Norrlof − Professor, University of Toronto Federiga Bindi − Professor, University of Rome Tor Vergata.   Presented in partnership with Intelligence Squared    

The Trump administration’s hard-nosed approach to the European Union has left leaders across the Atlantic questioning where the relationship with the U.S. is headed. According to GMF’s president Dr. Karen Donfried, a tour of Europe shows how the outlook on America changes based on where you sit. While the talk in Paris is all about “strategic autonomy,” Warsaw is buzzing about “strategic embrace.”   This week on Out of Order, Dr. Donfried sits down with GMF’s Peter Sparding to discuss the three strategic Europes—and what the differences in attitudes reveals about European cohesion and also the future of the transatlantic relationship. The conversation is based on an article by Dr. Donfried that appeared in Defense One earlier this year.   Article: https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/04/3-ways-europe-looking-fraying-nato/155982/?oref=d-river

On May 23-26 citizens in all (still) 28 EU countries will go to the polls and select the 751 members of the European Parliament. The Parliament is the only directly elected EU institution and this year is being framed as a make-or-break election. Both by those who want to make it better, and those who want to break it. A strong populist and Euroskeptic block is expected to result; they could even be the second largest group in the parliament. Rachel Tausendfreund talks to Rosa Balfour, a senior fellow with GMF‘s Europe program based in Brussels, about the populist challenge and the different shades of nationalism and populism across Europe, and how the outcome will shape the EU and national politics for the next five years.

Ankara and Washington are locked in a game of chicken. With Turkey refusing to budge over its purchase of the NATO-incompatible S-400 missile defense system from Russia, the U.S. is upping the stakes with the threat of sanctions and ejection from the lucrative F-35 fighter jet program. The implications of this could be far reaching not just for Turkey and the U.S., but could shift the geopolitical balance in far-reaching ways.     Does this mark a new low in an already volatile relationship? And is there a way to turn the feud around?  This week, Out of Order digs in on what is going on in Turkey, from S-400’s to President Erdogan’s domestic political gamble, with GMF’s Ankara office director Ozgur Unluhisarcikli and VP of Foreign Policy Ian Lesser.  

More than five years after the Euromaidan, Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko is battling for his political life against Volodymyr Zelensky – a comedian and political newcomer who has emerged as the favorite to win Sunday’s runoff. The story of political outsider-turned-president may be a familiar one for anyone who has watched “Servant of the People” a comedy (now available on Netflix) in which Zelensky plays just that—a teacher thrust into the presidency unexpectedly. In real life though, Zelensky’s plans for leading Ukraine remain uncertain against an ongoing conflict with Russia, economic stagnation, and internal corruption.   On this episode of Out of Order, GMF’s resident Ukraine watcher and senior fellow, Jonathan Katz, weighs in on what’s at stake this weekend as Ukrainians cast their votes.  Katz travelled to Ukraine last month as an election monitor during the first round of voting, and he also chairs the Transatlantic Task Force on Elections and Civil Society in Ukraine.