The Daily

From the very beginning, the West was certain that China would not pull off its economic experiment. That certainty came from a set of assumptions about how societies function and political freedoms emerge. But those assumptions were wrong — and China became stronger than ever. Guest: Philip P. Pan, the Asia editor for The New York Times, spoke with us from Beijing. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.